Please respond to the following prompt by Saturday, November 20th at midnight. Then, respond to at least one of your classmates by Sunday, November 21st at midnight. Be prepared to go over responses on Monday, November 22nd. Your responses should be at least 2 paragraphs.
After reading and reflecting on Robinson's introduction, and reading through chapter 8, do you think you are able to locate Mrs. Pontellier's true struggle? If so, how? If not, why not? Based on what you know about the protagonist, what would you say is her true inner struggle? Explain.
(If you do not have the brown book to review the intro, you may reflect on chapters 1-8 only)
Mrs. Pontellier's true struggle is her infatuation with Robert. Despite her attempts to resist her urges she likes him. Although it is known that Robert devotes himself to a female every summer, this still does not stop her from slowly becoming fixated on the young man.
ReplyDeleteMrs. Pontellier has a very independant personality. She finds that children are a mere burden and she wants to be free of there taking care of. She views marriage the same way as a boundary. She can no longer flirt freely or go for the boys. This is where her desire to "have an affair" comes from. With Robert around so often her true struggle forms. This meaning her feelings for Robert.
Mrs. pontellier's struggle is of the man versus self varity. she sees all of the happy, carefree people around herself every summer and part of her is shocked by their behavior but the other part, the part that is, perhaps becomming more dominant as time goes on, wishes she could be like them. since her childhood, mrs pontellier has been shy and reserved, content to be with just herself. now, she sees how such characteristics may be both holding her back and making her appear stuffy in other's eyes.
ReplyDeletethis struggle is most evidenced by her self-reflective thoughs as she sits with madame ratignolle on the porche of the bath house. there, she first realizes that the "reserve of her own character had anything to do with [not having many close friends]" (23 pink).
in response to mark:
I agree that she views her marriage as a boundry,as boundries can both inhibit freedom and offer protection. since she is safely married and "out of the game" she id not pressured to flirt but also cannot when she wants to.
I think she feels trapped. Trapped in a life that she is not happy with. Robert gives her a sense of not having a care in the world, taking her out of her ordinary life. When she started thinking back on her life when she married she never mentioned that she loved him only that she grew to like and appreciate him.
ReplyDeleteWanting to break away and not have a obligation, with her children and husband. She thinks back to times when she wants to hold her boys but other times when she forgets about them. Her struggle is within herself wanting to be free but also wanting to be like the others around her. She wants to fit in so that she is not alone.
In response to Erin:
I agree, her refelction by the water tells a lot about her character. Showing her background is a chance to see a part of her that she hides. She is not open about herself and doesn't let people see the real person.
Mrs. Pontellier's main struggle is wheather or not she wants to submit to her husband and his commands. She feels like her husband ties her down and she has no independance from him. eventhough she doesn't completly trust him she still relies on him. She puts up a front that she loves him, but by herself she can't stand him.
ReplyDeleteShe is now stuck between her husband and robert a young gentleman who she is very familiar with. She tires of her boring duties as a house wife and wishes for more. She wants to be a selfsuffient woman and experience life without another. The monotony has pushed her to explore new tempations in her mind. She is stuck wondering does her husband truly love her and what are the benefits of leaving him.
Mrs. Pontellier is the kind of person that is shy and often even embarrassed by the actions of people around her, but at the same time she is slightly jealous of their lifestyle and wishes her life could have some more excitement. I suppose it is kind of like at school dances when a person is shy and wishes he or she could dance like the other kids, but at the same time they are embarrassed to try. She is stuck between her desire for interest in her life and the fear of going out of her comfort zone.
ReplyDeleteAt the same time, it is not really clear at this point if this is her "true struggle." There are many factors in her life that could also contribute to her lack of happiness. There is her relationship with her husband that seems a bit odd and perhaps lacking a spark. Maybe she is just depressed and feeling a lack of purpose in her life. It doesn't seem possible to pinpoint it at this point in the novel, but it should become evident soon.
I agree with what RYan had to say. I think that along with her shyness, she is a selfish drama queen. I think that she milks her shyness for all its worth. this is where Robert plays in. I think that Mrs. Pontellier like Robert because she will do whatever she wants him to do, which is more than her husband will do. Robert tends to cater to Mrs. Pontellier's needs and I think that through this indulgence, Mrs. Pontellier will find out that she is missing out on life and her inner struggle will come out.
ReplyDeleteI do not think that Mrs. Pontellier's inner struggle is know yet. I think that so far in the book we are just reading a bit of background information. There hasn't been enough information on Mrs. Pontellier and her life history, to determine exactly what her inner struggle is.
in repsone to Ryan: I agree with what you said. You put it really well. I like that you hit on her relationship with her husband. There really is no spark there and it seems like a marriage of convenince, like Chopin had.
Edna is a character that is more advanced than the other women of her society. She is ahead of her time. She is struggling to find out who she really is. She reflects on her life while living in Grand Isle. The newer things that she experiences awakens her soul and causes her to thirst for these newer things. Never before had she been aware of the way music could move her, nor the feeling of freedom and independence as she felt in the water swimming by herself for the first time. Her struggle is that she doesn't belong.
ReplyDeleteAll her life she grew up as a love sick girl who received admiration form several decent men. She marries someone who worships her instead of marring someone she loves. She enters a life style that was not meant for her. I feel that she is too headstrong for the role that she is to play. Edna wants independence and freedom. She wants to do things that are not thought of to be acceptable for women of her time. I think that she is not happy with the way her life turned out. She is finally finding out what kind of a person she is. Edna's characteristics of having a sexual drive and wanting independence is what sets herself apart from the other women.
I think that Mrs. Pontellier's struggle is that she is strongly influenced by those around her. She seems to be really shy but if we think deeply about her character, I think she longs for something else. Due to her shyness, she is scarred to even try and pursue that 'something else,' kind of like what Ryan said about the highschool dance scene. I also think that she feels like she has no where to go and that she's not at all happy with her current situation.
ReplyDeleteI'm not really sure if this is her real struggle yet because she seems to be going through so many different emotions. She feels trapped, and longs for something else, but at the same time she is scared to attempt to gain what she wants something else yet still stays with her husband, I think she could be using him as a comfort blanket, feeling as if she really has no reason to be here or do what she does. Robert is another character that she could be using for pure comfort, relying in him to give her what she needs emotionally. I'm not quite sure yet as to if these are any of the reasons.
In response to Taylor: I never thought that she could be thinking of the benefits to leaving her husband. This is a good point. This is also one of the reasons that I think she is relying on Robert to give her comfort emotionally. As we read in the notes about Chopin, the questions I have are: could she be using Robert to try and relieve sexual tension? Could she be so tired of her husband, she wants something completely different and new?
Perhaps Mrs. Pontellier could be seeking self motivation to try and do what she has always wanted. I know that her relationship with Mr. Pontellier isn't that good, and it's obvious that there's something missing. I think she needs to stop relying on Robert and try to fix things with her husband. Thinking about family friends that we've had in the past, I don't believe that it's right that she tries to confide in another guy to make her feel better when she really isn't happy with her current relationship. I believe that she should just break it off with Mr. Pontellier if she's really not that happy with him or if she isn't willing to atleast work it out with the guy.
Mrs. Pontellier's struggle is how she reacts to Robert. Robert clearly likes Mrs. Pontellier, and she likes him back. No matter how much she tries to hide it, it can still be seen. This struggle is seen by the way that she around Robert.
ReplyDeleteRobert openly flirts with her, and it Mrs. Pontellier does not try hard enough to stop it. On the contrary, she likes the way that Robert obsesses over her. Through the discussion on the beach between her and Adele, she explains that she only married Mr. Pontellier to fit the social norm. She thought that it would be fun and it wasn't what she expected. It just shows all the more that Mrs. Pontellier is falling for Robert.
At this time in the novel, it is hard to locate Mrs. Pontellier's inner struggle, because she does not even know what it is. Based on the her thoughts and reactions to people, as well as past themes of Chopin's writing, Mrs. Pontellier's conflict can be guessed.
ReplyDeleteMrs. Pontellier's true inner struggle is that she is is tired of who she is and the roles that she has played in her life. She feels held back and disappointed with certain aspects of her life, and she realizes that deep in her heart, she is afraid that it will never change. She does not see herself the way she feels she has to be seen by society as submissive, a housekeeper, a loving wife, a loving mother. She admits that she was not a "mother-woman." Mother-women "were women who idolized their children, worshiped their husbands, and esteemed it a holy privilege to efface themselves as individuals and grow wings as ministering angels" (Chopin 10).
In response to Alex:
ReplyDeleteI don’t quite agree that Edna is falling for Robert. I feel that she is attracted to him on a level of sexual satisfaction, but I think she is too worried about finding out what is socially acceptable for women. There is a cultural difference in the way the Creole’s act and respond to each other. From what we know Robert picks his yearly prey, and stalks the woman all summer long.
The people of the community seem to think that it is alright for Robert to be so attached to Edna and vis. versa. Even Mr. Pontellier seems to be fine with the two enjoying each other’s company. The culture does not accept room for jealousy or hard feelings about other relationships. This conclusion is drawn up from what is said from the text about husbands not being able to show frustration or jealousy. This is a hard adjustment for Edna, but she acts the social norm of acceptance and follows the role of the creoles, until she realizes how her life could have been different.
in response to Elissa: I like how you put the struggle as "feeling trapped," because I think that is exactly what Edna feels maybe even to the point where other people around her, Robert especially, become symbols or reminders of the more interesting life she feels she could have had. I think that the Chopin sets up extremes in reserve to portray Edna's conflict even more. Characters like the twins, who would not stand up with any man to dance at the party represent the reserved end of the scale, while Robert and even the Creoles that show little to no reserve are at the opposite end of the scale. Edna is trapped in the middle.
ReplyDeleteresponse to malinda: i agree that she feels she does not fit in with where she lives. She views her usband as a rich provider and looks up to him but may not have any love. She wants a life of her own in which she can do anything she pleases. Her current role does not fit her personality and leaves her with unhappiness.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Grace: I like how you described her struggle as her being "tired of who she is and the roles that she has played in her life." I think by phrasing it that way, it encompasses many of the struggles that people have stated thus far. All of those are problems of their own, but the root of it all lies in her lack of enthusiasm in her own life.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Ryan: He brought to my attention a new view point. It was a good insight to myself. It is true that Mrs. Ponteiller is very shy and feels sort of infurier to the other woman that are very social and out going. Ryan also does bring up a good point in that it is very early in the novel and locating the true source of the and her accual struggle is quite difficult, however I believe there are a couple indications that point towards her infaution and lust being a pontentional problem for her in the later parts of the novel.
ReplyDeleteI think Mrs. Pontellier's struggle is between fitting in with the Creole society while maintaining her individualism. In the first few chapters, Mr. Pontellier talks about how he does not like how Mrs. Pontellier does not idolize her children or worship him like many of the other women did with their children and husbands. Edna liked to do things her own way.
ReplyDeleteHer infatuation with Robert also added to this struggle. Society at the time was against this, and mainly still is today. The more time she spent with Robert, the more attracted she became to him, as much as she hated to admit it. Overall, Mrs. Pontellier wanted both to fit into the societal role of a woman while maintaining her individualism at the same time. However, considering both were polar opposites, the chances of her having both are slim. It already seems that she is giving up on fitting in with the Creole's, but rather is set on living life her way.
In response to Grace: I agree. It is somewhat hard at first to see what Mrs. Pontellier's struggle is. I also formed what her struggle possibly is based off of her previous works we read. I think your quote hit the nail on the head. The Creole society wanted all of the women to act in a certain way, but Mrs. Pontellier wanted to act in her own way. She did not want to be enslaved to what society wanted out of her. What she wants out of life is to be satisfied with it herself, not to waste her time only focusing on the satisfaction of others.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Mark: I agree with your views that Mrs. Pontellier's struggle is her feelings toward Robert. I also like how you said that even though Mrs. Pontellier knows that Robert chases after a new woman each summer she is attracted to him. It is true that Mrs. Pontellier is independent and i like how you put that because she cannot flirt with boys anymore she hides her desires for Robert.
ReplyDeleteMrs. Pontellier's inner struggle is that of accepting her life. She is so over come with emotions that she cannot tie down or even begin to understand. She is put in a difficult situation between the feelings she has for her husband and those she has not yet let go of from men of her past. Even the freeness that Robert carries with him allows her to escape from the bottled up feelings she cannot control. When her and Madame Ratignolle are on the beach, she recalls feelings from her past that she holds on to.
ReplyDeleteWith all of these emotions, Mrs. Pontellier cannot pinpoint why she has inner struggles or what exactly what they are over. But she continues to allow herself to drown in those emotions as if it was her secet hide-away spot where she was by herself. Through out the first ten chapters she strives to have alone time and will even sleep on the porch hammock to achieve this. Perhaps she wishes to explore the vast sea of emotions she carries with her, but nevertheless, Mrs. Pontellier thrives off of her "inner struggle".
In response to Grace:
ReplyDeleteI agree that Mrs. Pontellier's "inner struggle" is hard to point out because she does not realize what it is either. Infact, she might even be oblivious to having any issues. I also agree that if there were to be any struggle it is that of accepting where she is in her life. She remembers a lot of her past years in the first couple of chapters and acts stiff to her husband at times as if she is not satisfied. I also agree with Elissa in that she feels trapped in the life she is living.
Alex L. I think Mrs. pontellier's true struggle is basically with society as a whole. Firstly, the book says that she is not a native creole though she is married to a creole husband. This automatically puts her on the outside. She is also shocked by the open and unrestrained way that creole woman talk, especially about private and sensitive issues. Not to mention she doesn't fit the "mother-woman" stereo-type, who praise only their husbands and children and saves nothing for them selves. In the beginning, it says that Mr. pontellier loves Edna like a possession. I think she feels that she is supposed to act a certain way according to society's rules about married wives, though she doesn't agree with it. All in all, I think her true struggle is with society. As is true in most other works by Kate Chopin, the story is told from the view point of the heroine, whose ideals are that of individuality and independence as well as freedom from the traditional and strict conformity of Victorian society.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Elissa's post.
ReplyDeleteI think that Edna does feel trapped. I'm pretty sure that back in that time period it was common to have arranged marriages between rich families, but I'm not sure. Not that Edna's and Leo's wedding was arranged in the first place. But it's the same idea, Edna is trapped inside of a relationship where there is no real love. I say real love because though I think she appreciates him and everything he does for her and the children, she doesn't really seem to love him. And he only sees her as a possession so it doesn't count.
Though she is stuck conforming to what society thinks she should be and performing her duties as a "mother-woman", she seems to find relief and freedom through Robert. Their relationship has all the romance and flirtation that she isn't getting from Leo. I know that is definitely going to play a big role later on in the story.
I think that Mrs. Pontellier inner struggle is her being unhappy with her life. although she has a good life she wish it were different. she has a husband that adores her and she feels nothing towards him. she has children that love her yet she doesn't even miss them when they are gone. she wants a life that is less binding and more carefree.
ReplyDeletewe see that she finds this sort of life with in robert. even though she doesn't say anything about it. but she watches him as he walks away and watches is fingers pass in and out of the moonlight. what she feels for robert and the way she feels within her marriage make her think. she wonders what she should do stay in this life that she is already in and can get nothing out of or start a new one in hopes of not feeling trapped anymore.
i think that mrs. pontelliers true struggle is finding the right emotions at the right times. when she is with her children she admits that she is indifferent towards them at times and at others loves them more than anything. same thing goes for her husband, sometimes she looks at him with nothing but love in her eyes and at others feels a hatred towards him, or sorrow for the way he treats her. her struggle is finding the right emotion to have at the times so that she can keep up her appearances.
ReplyDeleteresponse to Carrissa: i totally agree that she can't accept her life and that she has not let go of the men in her past. i also think that she just settled for her husband and she now is regretting this decision. she also craves that alone time when she can actually be herself and not put on a protective shell to hide her true self from those who surround her.
ReplyDeletei agree with alexandra in saying that she has issues with society as a whole. she has difficulty fitting into the mold that has been put into place for her and accepting the fact taht she is a woman and certain things are expected of her- she has a place with boundaries that she is not allowed to cross.
ReplyDeletei also agree with ryan in saying that she wants to fit in to a society that is not necessarily her own- one with the Creoles. she wants to be an individual, but wants to put on a certain facade that she is confident and can fit in anywehre. the Creole society as a whole as put on boundaries to her as well and she is starting to feel suffocated by them and their views of her.
At this point in the novel it's tough to pinpoint Mrs. Pontellier's true inner struggle. Chopin gives the reader very few of Mrs. Pontellier's thoughts and feelings. Chopin simply shows the reader situations where she is upset.
ReplyDeleteIf I had to guess what she is distraught about I would have to say she wants out of her monotonous lifestyle. Her husband doesn't truly love her and she realizes that, which greatly upsets her. She also compares herself to her friends, and wants to be in their places, even though they all envy her. The final piece of monotony is her constant want of her children's love. She sees her children show their true love to their father, while she recieves none. At this point in the novel, it's hard to know what her true inner struggle is.
In response to Ryan:
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with your thoughts on the prompt, to a tee. She gives glimpses of her feelings that would point the reader to our thoughts, but the reader cannot know for sure what her one stuggle is. I also like the analogy made, it relates it to our generation well.
Mrs. Ponteller's struggle within herself is expressing who she truly is. She feels her personality and even her sexuality oppressed by her husband. She is scared of the capability to be who she really is because of the relationship she is binded in. I would propose what she doesn't say or do tells the reader a lot about her- similar to Mersault (in a certain aspect) in the stranger.
ReplyDeleteMrs. P.'s relationship with her husband may have been one of social convention, or they were in love at one time and now no longer, who knows. Her lack of reaction and passiveness toward's her husbands lack of affection show her feelings to the reader though she suppresses them. She speaks through her silence.
In response to Britney, perhaps it is not the struggle to find the right emostions at the right times but suppressing her real emotions because of the pressure she faces to keep up appearances. I loved Ryan's wall flower at the dance analogy- it's perfect in describing the situation.
I think that Mrs. Pontelliers is having trouble being herself. She seems like she doesn't have the freedom she desires. My best guess is that she was in a relationship with Mr Pontelliers for a long time before they got married, but I think she felt tied down. I'm sure her feelings for him were legitimate love, but she probably is constantly thinking about what else is out there.
ReplyDeleteI think that it was when they got married that it started bugging her more. When they were dating she probably considered the possibility that they might break up and she could flirt freely, but now that they are married and have kids she is trapped. I can see her giving into the temptation to sneak around sometime in this book.
I think that Mrs. Pontellier's inner struggle is one of fantasy. Ever since she was little she dreamed about marrying the perfect man, and they have never loved her back. She has never had the life that she dreamed of. Although she loves her children, she does not have the motherly love that most mothers have for their children and she felt relieved when they were gone for a summer. The kind of man that she fantasized about when she was a little girl, she can see in Robert. She feels more freedom when he is around but she knows that she can never be with him now and that gives her stress.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Ryan: I completely agree,Mrs. Pontiellier has always sought to live like everyone else, and that is evident when she says that all of her friends "whether accidentally or not, they seemed to have been all of one type -- the self-contained."(pg 23)
ReplyDeleteI think that she sees her opportunity for a life like this through Robert. There are too many possible reasons for her unhappiness to be able to pinpoint it to one specific reason at this point in the story.